VIRTUALITY PRESS: REVIEWS Page Three (M through O):   MANDRAGORA: Self-proclaimed 'Dr Pepper Afficionado', Scott Mosher has an interesting release on his hands. WHile the overall vibe is very prog rockish, some parts are much heavier than you'd expect from prog rock and there are many electronic and looping elements more common to dance music. Dr. Mosher calls it 'ambient neo-progressive cyber rock'. Despite the uniqueness pf this album, the overall orchestration feels formulaic and becomes irksome after several tracks. Every song seems to have the same beat (tempo and time signature) which makes the album seem to drone on. The other major problem with the construction is thatr most all the vocal lines are placed over a chord by either the guitar or synth that acts as a sort of pedal tone. There are exceptions to this, such as in parts of "Re-Define" but they are rare. The formula does work to bring the lyrics to the forefront but a single sustained type of stimulus causes the listener to become numb to it. Scott's talent as a visual artist is worth mentioning here as he put together quite a bit of art to produce one of the most elaborate booklets I've seen. IF you're looking for a unique disc, are intrigued by the fusion of prog and electronic or like to support independents, then pick this disc up, but I'm not sure who else it might appeal too.   MARGEN MAGAZINE 02/2002: Sci-fi-prog? Therefore surely, at least the conceptual line of this work follows this philosophy. There are here a lot of references of space rock, electronic and contemporary music... and melodic rock, sometimes in a metal vein that remind of Rush. Something new and vibrant, structured like tectonic plaques that move and collide each other provoking earthquakes of "cyber neo-progressive rock". Powerful and delicate at the same time because the production on this disc is very clean and crisp. Scott Mosher have produced an excellent and original album. Very good. - Marcos VARELA (margen #24) MEDIA READER: MUSIC: Scott Mosher! What a name! Solo-artist self-proclaimed as 'ambient neo-progressive cyber-rock' (it says so ON the CD packaging!). WHile the '80's prog-rock genre has not particularly flooded enough turn-of-the-century contemporaries to render any cliche's, there's not much ground to break despite the technology jump from the 2600 to the X-box. During the instrumentals, I feel like I'm watching an interlude moment in a really trying television episode of The Highlander. During the tracks with vocals I feel pretty much the same, but Rush's Geddy Lee is behind me whispering sweet nothings into my ear. Mosher's got an ear for leftist politics, mostly based on environmental issues. While it certainly adds an interesting twist to his delivery, I can't help but think of it as dogmatic rather than educational. (2/out of 4). \DESIGN: Scott Mosher! What a name! Also a self-proclaimed graphic artist, Mosher takes the liberty to grace us with Bladerunner-esque graphic paintings depicting the urban decay our world of SUV's, littering and general disrespect of Mama Earth will lead u sto (or so says the essay entitled 'Virtuality: The Cover Concept... Go Behind the Ambient Mind' in the liner notes). There's a lot fo smokestacks to pump one full of phallic imagery, lots of clouds and lots of space stuff. The center spread has lightning, pyramids, rings, stars, the ocean, and a bunch of other mystical stuff that's something I mgith get on a fantasy novel. On the inside back cover there's a wolf with a man's body sitting cross-legged on a lake balancing two globes, one in each hand. All the handiwork of Scott Mosher. (2/out of 4, for humor value?)   METAL AGES: The words I write will hardly do Scott Mosher's "Virtuality" album justice. Not that it's the greatest most superb piece of material to ever hit the music scene, but more so because of the time, energy, thought and absolute dedication that is evidently forged into this project. The liner notes themselves are a piece of work within itself. Scott not only composed and performed everything on this album (minus lead vocals, one guitar solo and one bass solo) but he also created all of the artwork for the CD. Multi-talented indeed. Combining art and music to bring forth his beliefs, opinions and general outlook on life itself, Scott serves up over 70 minutes of music to the masses. The tongue-in-cheek genre description on the back of the CD, quite frankly, describes this album to a tee. It reads, "File under: Ambient Neo-Progressive Cyber Rock." How's that for a description? I would even say throw some trance and electronica elements into the mix as well. The album is about half instrumental and at times reminds me of those videos you can buy in the store. You know, the ones where there are different 3D animations and sequences on the screen with the cool, relaxing ambient music in the background. Soothing. For the songs that have vocals I liken them a lot to the band Rush. That's mainly due to the fact that vocalist Todd Corso has a heavy Geddy Lee influence, my opinion anyway. Scott even throws some heavily effect laden vocals into the song "The Human: Machine". With its unique verse/chorus contrast I find myself drawn to that song if I were to pick a favorite. Compare this album to other bands out there you ask? Forget it. If you can't somewhat picture what the music sounds like based on my description thus far then you just have to hear it for yourself! One thing I am trying to figure out is how Mr. Mosher was able to sink such money into this professional sounding/looking CD being that he's released this album himself. However the will and way came about, kudos to you Mr. Mosher! (8.25/10 stars)   METALCORE FANZINE: Cool metal band with a touch of Dream Theatre to it. Clean vocals rule when the music is played this way. Quality songs and production is sharp as well. Fans of Dream Theatre and fans of prgressive rock would like this as I did. Info: ninja@mindspring.com METAL JUDGEMENT: Wow! This is a really excellent demo. I would call it Blade Runner meets Dream Theater. Scott Mosher calls it ambient, neo-progressive, cyber rock. Whatever you call it, it looks and sounds great. The artwork is all original work by Scott through his design studio, the Ambient Mind. All of the music is written and played by Scott with the exception of a few guest solos by friends. The CD is the embodiment of Scott Mosher's vision of music and art. I have to applaud Mosher's ability to capture all of his feelings, thoughts and emotions in this one CD. The computer graphics have a really cool sci-fi feel. Pictures of smoke stacks, naked women and pyramids basque in an orange, star-laden sky. You could be on Mars or in NJ with during a sunset. Definitely take some time to check out his website. The site is well organized and has everything you would want on it (except porn). The music is both ambient and progressive. At his most inspired, Mosher sounds like Dream Theater or Queensryche. Guitars and keyboards intertwine and produce power pop with musical integrity. However, to me, ambient means boring. I have to admit there are plenty of long sleepy passages on this CD which threatened to send me to a different kind of dream theater. The music is very accessible and has good pop rock sensibility for the most part, but his love for ambiance causes Mosher to let parts go on for too long without change. I suspect this is due to the fact that he did everything himself and programmed a lot of stuff on the sequencer. It is far too easy to repeat passages over and over when you program them into the computer. And it is far too easy to be complacent about editing to your music when you are the only one playing in the band. The absolute worst part of this CD is the drum machine which clicks away without feeling or emotion. The digital perfection constantly exposes Mosher as a bedroom genius. The absence of any outside influence on Mosher is apparent. You are in his world. As far as demos go, he has done a great job. It seems that so much is invested in this CD in terms of money, artwork and time, so I am saddened by the fact that he didn't use a real drummer. I know some people like that mechanical feel and sound, but I am not one of those people. I like real people playing instruments. Definitely go to Mosher's website and check out his music. It's good, but, sadly, It's not metal enough (hence, a one skull deduction). However, he has really showcased his skills as a musician, programmer and graphic artist. (6/10)   METAL MANIACS (JULY 2002 Issue): This is definitely where the blackest of the black sheep comes out of the herd. VIRTUALITY, a composition of sorts by Scott Mosher, proves to be one of the most progressive, chill-out 'mellowmetal' records I've heard in a while. This record is such a mind-bending space excursion it's mind-boggling. This isn't exactly my main thing, but as far as technical, artistic, and textured abilities go, this guy's armed with those special space-age crayoloa's and paints some crazy pictures! The artwork alone is remarkably well-done, and the layout couldn't be more perfect for it's surreal abstraction of reality and twisted perceptions of sound and structure. It's one of those records where it's not just songs, they each have chapters, subtitles, layers and piles of technical jargon. Jesus! This is the kind of stuff that makes you visualize shit while you're just sitting there listening, or somewhow, makes you feel something, even when it's just 'whatever the fuck is on in the background.' [I heard this disc and it made me think of The Jetsons. I think it had something to do with the futuristic industrial cover. 'The Jetsons build a power plant' - Liz]. I'm not a big fan of the vocals, but they grew on me. It's like the Geddy Lee complex, if you catch my whiff. There's actually a whole lot of 'Rush-ish' stuff happening here. This feels like what should b een THE MATRIX soundtrack instead of all that techno be-bop shit. Mentally driving beats and layers wind their way through themselves like a tank of electric eels. Classic metal solos and programmed drums drive this like it could not only power the aforementioned modern techno-thriller but goddamn, Rocky could be jogging to this shit too! It's inspiring, mellow, and full of building energy. This is for fans of KING CRIMSON, DREAM THEATER, RUSH and the rest of all the bands I'm supposed to use to describe this record. Even some of the New-Age head music is here with all the keybaords and blended sounds. I'm by no means the best one to review this record, but it came to me, and it is some exceptional shit so I did my best. I'll accept any condemnation from all you apparent REAL critics, bu t I won't give a shit. I have the CD and you don't.   METAL OBSERVER ONLINE: Scott Mosher? With this name you would rather expect Thrash or Thrashcore or something of the likes, but nope. The self-given categorization of Ambient Neo-Progressive Cyber-Rock sounds pretty bulky, but as strange as it may sound, you really can put it this way, because it basically features the different styles of this solo-project pretty accurately. The opening intro-instrumental "Upon The Frontiers Of Infinite Night" I somehow feel reminded of Jean-Michel Jarre, very atmospheric keyboards, but not in the usual intro-style, rather like a song. After that an e-guitar joins in, supporting the keys. A mixture from Jarre-esque Ambient-atmo-sound and some guitars plus vocals, which sound a little fragile (the comparison with Geddy Lee in fact comes surprisingly close), but fits the music very well is what the title-track "Virtuality" is bringing us and even though the guitars never come to the foreground (apart from the solo), the song convinces fully by the atmosphere that it creates, strong one! Also the rest of the album is borne by the combination of the spheric keyboards and electric guitars, sometimes instrumental, sometimes with vocals (where those of guest-singer Todd Corsa are much more to my liking than the at times included passages with Scott himself), but always atmospheric. As mentioned before, the best description might be Jean-Michel Jarre with mire guitars and drums and vocals. To find something better is damn hard... For bone-dry Metallers "Virtuality" is not suited, neither for purists, because especially the spheric keyboards are not everybody's cup of tea, but if you want to keep it calmer, then "Virtuality" is a very interesting and for sure strong album, because it invites you to dream and float away, but still with good solos and guitar-parts! Also more than remarkable is the brilliant artwork (in this case the whole booklet), which is top-notch, so the whole package is right!   METAL RULES! Wow. Probably the best packaging by an indie I have seen in ages. Extremely top notch, professional in all areas. Your eyes are greeted by a sea/space-scape with factory towers belching smoke into the red sky. Very cool. The cover encloses a 14 page, full colour booklet, with lyrics, liner notes, an essay, the artists bio, footnotes, all beautifully designed and integrated into a dozen or so computer generated images. Most of the images have a similar theme of the environment, the future, technology and so on. It reminds me a bit of something Gamma Ray would do but a darker and not as cartoonish. Very impressive. The packaging and lyrics leaves no doubt to Mr. Moshers political stance. For what it is worth, I disagree with many of his opinions and feel politics don't really have a place in music BUT having said that music especially rock 'n' roll has always been a place of political protest (and awareness) so it is interesting to see a whole CD with a strong theme, and one that the artist obviously feels very passionately about. Scott is the ultimate one-man and. He did it all, lyrics, composition, artwork, design, performing all instruments, and the man is an incredible talent no matter what I think of his politics! He has some help from Todd Corsa on vocals and in some places guitar as well. VIRTUALITY is a twelve track, minute CD that is more of an ambient prog rock/metal musical soundscape rather than 12 individual songs with unique identity. It might have been just me but it seemed that parts, (just little parts) like a guitar riff or keyboard swirl would show up again and again adding to feel of continuity between songs. There are lots of keyboards and synthesized sounds on this disc, some in a very riff-oriented style but mostly an underlying swash of texture that might usually be provided by a rhythm guitar. The programmed drums are just there to do the job nothing more nothing less. It was very hard to categorize this CD and in fact Scott mentions that in his liner notes. Maybe that's why I liked it, it is atypical and therefore sounds quite refreshing and unique. However, when you try to embrace something so personal and intimate as this CD if you are not on board, it lacks the emotional connection. Therefore although dazzled by the brilliance of it all I was left a bit emotional unattached, feeling many of the songs were too similar. Of course, that is the entire point, the cohesion of his artistic vision of "spiritual energy and therein is the abstract concept of the ambient mind" is remarkable however, because I don't share that vision that's why it fell short of top marks. Regardless of your stance I strongly recommend you check this CD out, it could be one of the most interesting things you hear this year. (3.75/5)   METAL UNION: And so is uttered forth the most unusual thing this issue. A mixture of soundscapes, progressive metal, and futuristic world, this release is definitely one of most original pieces of work I've ever heard. Although not really my bag, I really appreciate this, because when you turn it up, it's mesmerizing. The keyboards wash over everything, and the effected vocals are excellent. Granted, this is something I put on in a dark room or while going to sleep, but it's still great. There seems to be a bit of RUSH influence - everyone that's heard this that I've shown it to says that, at least. Maybe it's just the way things are arranged. Who knows? I can't say much more than what I've already said, though, because I'm just not familiar enough with this kind of progressive music to be truly informed of what's going on with this.   MUSIC STREET JOURNAL: Scott Mosher is an artist of considerable talent and ideals. The liner notes to his CD list a very extensive list of environmental, social and other idealistic charities that Mosher supports. Quite the renaissance man, Mosher is not only a musician, but also a graphic artist. Does that mean that his music suffers from lack of attention? Far from it, that form's representation on this CD has strong prog leanings with a great original and unique style. The material does hearken back to other artists, most notably Rush and Hawkwind, but the tapestry that Mosher weaves really just shares a little with those sounds. Mosher also does the vast majority of the performances on this album, joined only in places by Todd Corsa and Mickey James. You will not hear another CD quite like this one, and I mean that in the best of ways. For info on getting the CD stop by Mosher's homepage at http://www.theambientmind.com/virtuality. Track by Track Review Upon The Frontiers of Infinite Night: Beginning atmospheric, melody begins to unfold at first in a rather Michael Oldfield oriented way, then it turns heavy. As the intensity explodes it becomes somewhat metallic this is a fairly brief instrumental. Virtuality: A keyboard fanfare starts the cut, but the bass line comes in in an almost '80's metal style. The vocals call to mind Geddy Lee just a little, but in a somewhat lower register. That brings a Rushish sort of feel to the piece. The instrumental break is both tasty and inspired, adding strong prog leanings back into the mix. Although the Rush influences are strong, the song is really unique. The Human Machine: This one starts out slowly, gradually building on its simple basis by adding both instrumentation and complexity. The vocals on the verse are in the form of slowed-down spoken voice Ala Rush's Caress of Steel's narration. The Rush influences are definitely strong here, as well, but with some other unplaceable prog stylings finishing the picture. After a time a break ensues with a Celtic based percussion mode. This is a very cool song. A Season Of Fire: Another instrumental, this one begins with a keyboard flourish and starts a building process from there. As the other instruments enter the, intensity soars as the jam continues. Rushish influences surface at many times but with a backdrop that feels more like ELP and even Tomita at times. As the second movement begins a Hawkwindesque drone takes the piece, the sheets of keys begin to encircle the listener. A very Rushish jam ensues from there, but the Hawkish tendencies remain. After a time a triumphant sounding prog jam replaces all that. This is a great track with plenty of changes. Attillou Sunrise: Sedate keyboard tones begin this one. Another instrumental, it is a delicate and gentle piece that works and wanders very carefully around its beginning style. The only complaint is that this piece is a little long. Re-Define: More rock just a bit in the mode of '80's metal bands like Europe starts this cut. The Rushisms only show up on the vocals of this one. As the cut carries on it changes, though and there are some considerably meaty segments. The Dreaming Eye: Beginning as a fairly sedate electronically based jam, the power quickly jumps and more of the processed spoken vocals come in. The jam gets quite interesting and energized as it carries on. Particularly intriguing is the shift into the second major movement when the cut is washed over by a sedate, calming keyboard segment that borders on fusion. Then it starts jumping in bursts from there before screaming out full on. This one just keeps evolving and is one of the strongest pieces on the CD. It is one that shows a definite sense of unique identity. Sometime After Midnight: Coming in with a slightly off-kilter rhythmic structure, this instrumental follows patterns of sound in an organic, but somewhat quirky jam. It shows the disc just getting better as this piece is even stronger than the jam that came before. It drops to a slower segment and follows that through to almost a full stop. A very gradual buildup ensues as the song begins to rise from the ashes. That guitar work on this one at times seems to take on a slight Howeish texture. Eventually a rapid-fire, overdrive speed jam take the piece into new territory. The Promise of Truth: Starting off with a prog style that is at once a bit mysterious while still triumphant. This one really makes a strong entrance. It drops to just keys, then begins a more pop-oriented prog song structure to continue - think Asia. This piece is not as strong as some of the other material here. Shores of A Cosmic Ocean: This instrumental, as the title suggests, begins with atmospheric keys slowly coming in, as if washing on a shore. They build, then eventually move back out much as they entered. Infinity Burns: Keys also starts this instrumental, and as the guitar enters it adds a lot of dramatic flair to the piece. It builds in a strong, somewhat hard-edged prog mode, but never wanders too far from its main theme. Sorrow In A World Of Darkness: Beginning much like Hawkwind, a metallic sort of transformation takes the track. The vocals bring back the Rushish leanings. After a time the composition moves into the next movement, one of only keys in an intricate sort of mode at times, almost feeling like butterflies flitting about. This feeling does not last long, however, as a hard-edged, almost Pink Floyd oriented sound comes in, punctuated by neo-classical frantic jamming. This eventually resolves down into something a bit more settling again. Then it just builds on pre-existing themes for a time. Eventually, a percussive buildup takes the cut again and the Rush leanings return once again. Another change pulls it into a more fusion based variant on that section to continue. It drops down to atmospheric keys in a segment that calls to mind the melodic sedate side of Hawkwind to take both the track and album to its conclusion.   MUZIKMAN REVIEW: Scott Mosher is a new world artist. He is a multi-faceted talent that not only creates visionary musical journeys; he is a graphic artist, website designer, multi-talented musician, and above alla soul on earth with a purpose. He goes far beyond his music in his music. He has a vision, a voice to be heard and strong opinions and beliefs that are projected through his potent musical translations. You will discover Mosher's picturesque worlds through the graphics, words, and commentary in the CD booklet of "Virtuality." All of those aspects of his work are pushed through a portal in time created in each song of ambient progressive guitar oriented music. Most of the music is instrumental. When vocals are used they are appropriately placed between the notes to emphasize the meaning of the story. His guest bass player Todd "shreedy gee" Corsa serves up vocals that all "Rush" fans will recognize. Notice the play on words for his nickname, Geddy Lee is the obvious intimation here. He effectively uses layers of atmospheric keyboards, perfectly placed sequencing of percussion, and rousing guitar parts to blast you off in your own personal starship to a musical void just waiting for you to inhabit. His website is a tribute to all of his talents, so make sure you check it out. I expect a lot more from Mosher's corner of the world in the years to come. There aren't that many people out there with a multitude of talents that have the ability to harness and control it all properly to make a convincing presentation like this. This CD is just the tip of the iceberg for this man. I really enjoyed every moment that this music had to offer. To fully experience this you must put on the CD, read the liner notes, look at the images, and browse his website. Scott Mosher is the epitome of the new world man (thanks again Rush), he is a 21st century Leonardo Da Vinci just waiting to be discovered. This CD is a fine place to start the trip that I am sure you will all love to go on. - Rating- 3.5/4   OGAM MAGAZINE: I couldn't even finish listening to one entire track from this solo artist and it's not that he's not good at what he does. As a matter of fact, he knows his electronic toys rather well, I just think this kind of stuff is better suited for movies and sci-fi tv shows. This atmospheric rock is just not my kind of music, but Scott is very multi-talented, he also is good at producing an excellent product!   OPEN UP AND SAY AH REVIEW: The words I write will hardly do Scott Mosher's "Virtuality" album justice. Not that it's the greatest, most superb piece of material to ever hit the music scene, but more so because of the time, energy, thought, and absolute dedication that is evidently forged into this project. The liner-notes themselves are a piece of work within itself. Scott not only composed and performed everything on this album (minus lead vocals, one guitar solo, and one bass solo), but he also created all of the artwork for the CD. Multi-talented indeed. Combining art and music to bring forth his beliefs, opinions, and general outlook on life itself, Scott serves up over seventy minutes of music to the masses. The tongue-in-cheek genre description on the back of the CD, quite frankly, describes this album to a tee. It reads, "File under: Ambient Neo-Progressive Cyber Rock." How's that for a description- I would even say throw some trance and electronica elements into the mix as well. The album is about half instrumental and, at times, reminds me of those videos you can buy in the store. You know, the ones where there are different 3-D animations and sequences on the screen with the cool, relaxing ambient music in the background. Soothing. For the songs that have vocals, I liken them a lot to the band Rush. That is mainly due to the fact that vocalist Todd Corso has a heavy Geddy Lee influence, my opinion anyway.Scott even throws some heavily effect-laden vocals into the song "The Human: Machine" With its unique verse/chorus contrast, I find myself drawn to this song, if I were to pick a favorite. Compare this album to other bands out there, you ask- Forget it. If you cannot somewhat picture what the music sounds like based on my description thus far, then you just have to hear it for yourself. One thing I am trying to figure out is how Mr. Mosher was able to sink such money into this professional sounding and looking CD, being that he has released this album himself. However the will and way came about, kudos to you Mr. Mosher!   OPUS 1 ZINE: I've been writing about music for several years now, and over time, I've learned a few things. First, turntables and rock don't mix. Second, if you're pissed off, make sure you have a good reason before you record it for the rest of us. Third, If you think your music is clever (or cutting edge), it's not. And I'm about to add another one to that list. For God's sake, don't ever make up a genre for your music. That kind of privilege is reserved for a very select few. But they're usually too busy defying genres to define them. I hate to judge albums by their cover, but I found it much harder to take Virtuality seriously after reading Mosher's comments on the back: "File under Ambient Neo-Progressive Cyber-Rock." Here's the real litmus test; when you read that, did you have to suppress a shudder? If so, than you're not going to like this album. To Mosher's credit, that string of hyphens comes pretty close to summing up Virtuality's sound. Its dreamy, starlit synthwork sure is ambient (my co-worker even thought it was Yanni at first). And I guess it's progressive, what with the grandiose flourishes and highbrow concepts. And there's plenty of rock, with loads of thrashing guitar leads that probably owe more to Satriani and Vai than anyone will ever know. You can't deny that Mosher is a technically-skilled musician, and that Virtuality is a topnotch recording. The production is excellent, the arrangements are tight, and I'm sure the recording studio was state of the art. But you know what? All technical merit aside, I never once felt any emotional response to the music. In fact, I found it pretty emotionless. Mosher's guitar-playing may be rich in tone and his leads may be scorching, but nothing ever gave me goosebumps, caused my jaw to drop, or made me want to put the rest of life on hold so that I could listen a little closer. Lyrically, it's the same. Virtuality may be a "progressive perspective on socio-political and environmental issues," but I'm hardpressed to see that in the cryptic lyrics, which read more like the edited portions of a William Gibson novel than any serious look at corporate corruption, political tyranny, and the environment. "The Human Machine" might be about how human life is increasingly becoming a commodity in our world. However, "The essence of lost humanity/Confined behind more steel circuitry/Lost in a fiber-optic mirror/As the cyborg armies that draw nearer" just sounds like a bunch of _Blade Runner_-isms strung together. "The Dreaming Eye" sure strives to be the album's transcendental moment, with references to swimming "in the omnipotence of time," floating "in a dreamspace ocean," and whatnot. But if I wanted such obtuseness, I'd turn to "Dianetics." If I'm supposed to take Virtuality seriously, I don't need be told it's trying to "forge a dramatic and atmospheric listening experience without genre-specific constraints while attaining a dynamic rarely heard in today's corporate musical climate." I don't need a senior thesis on Mosher's musical vision, including his "experimental proto-electronic trance-rock rap-funk-metal" projects. I don't need a documentary on the concept behind the cover art. And I don't need to read Mosher's personal philosophy on everything, regardless of how much he feels it's necessary so that I can understand his "art" in the proper "context." I like to know about an artist's philosophy as much as the next music lover. Such knowledge does provide valuable insight into their work. But when it requires a tome to explain it, I think you've gone too far. To be honest, it feels insulting, as if the album's concept is so far beyond the grasp of mere mortals like myself that I need a user's manual (complete with smarmy, self-deprecating humor). I don't need or want everything to be spelled out so that I can enjoy an album. Virtuality is as heavy-handed as it is Byzantine, and never becomes as compelling as it tries so hard to be, regardless of what you file it under.